This is one of many things we all should do having ENS
Well, First of all, Thank you TE and those of you who created this site. I think it really is beneficial for lots of people pre and post operation. I think that I have a certain degree of ENS. I feel very uncomfortable, lack of concentration on what I do, sleeping disorder, and feel stuffy most of the time. I can understand your frustrations. Sometimes, like all of you, I think why I am having this, why other seem to enjoy life and fall asleep so easily. I have been thinking about this and come up with the solution. It is all about faith & Karma. My mom has retina degeneration and she now can see only 20% and have been suffering from that for decades now. The reason?? We must have done something like this to others in the past or even in our past life. I know that Christain do not believe in reincarnation but Budish does (by the way I am Christain). I think we must have done something bad in our past life and that is why we have to suffer this in our current life time in return to what we did. Solution? just start doing all the good deeds that we can do. It can be anything starting from helping others in whatever way we can, stop doing things like hurting animals and others, stop hunting, stop fishing, stop killing anything. Also, we should think good, talk good, and behave good. Actually the doc. told me to do meditation and i think it actually helps improve ENS directly and indirectly. If you have money left from your treatment of ENS, donating to others in need is not a bad idea. At least if we can not fix our ENS in our current life time, we can hope to have a better life in our next life. I know this may sound dumb for lots of you but just one suggestion from someone who is christain but grew up in buddish environment. I guess my suggestion cann't hurt anyone anyway, god bless you all :D

What a nose. Meditation is very powerful, i have been doing a lot of it, and i believe its helping. Meditation can help slow the heart rate down, i feel i have greater control over my heart rate. Meditation can also change your brain waves to a more relaxed state. Also it will help your body regulate itself better. It can promote your overall health. It is possible that the meditation will unblock sublte energies, and even promote your cells to regenerate at the cellular level. Meditation can also help you to become more aware of your body and be able to notice when things are improving. With more practise you will be more aware of your body. I believe things happen for a reason, and i believe this suffering happened for a reason, its not necessarily because we have sinned. Our suffering can bring us closer to god, and closer to humanity. I believe through my suffering I am less focused on certain things that dont matter as much. I am more focused on things that do matter. Accupuncture can also help, i have been doing a lot of this as well. Its important not to give up on it right away. Also the accupuncturist sees things only in terms of traditional chinese medicine so its hard for them to understand the picture completely. But doing accupuncture can help with many aspects. I believe urinary bladder points on the back are powerful for slowing down your heart rate. Also point between the eye and above the nose can help with your concentration. That point is associated with the breath and mind. In ancient healing methods the breath and mind are connected. To bad most ENTs dont realize this. I do believe the suffering is so bad with some people here it would be hard for them to notice the sublte improvements, but with time those subtle improvements can turn into greater improvements. There are many other things that can be done to promote healing. I have done many things and i think they have helped. Also if you have other health issues, by addressing them it can indirectly help your nose. There are many supplements out there that can help. I have tried certain supplements that have helped me a lot. Also i have told friends and families about certain supplements and they have got tremendous benefits from them. Some people on the board have been helped from certain supplements i recommended. In addition i have been helped by certain supplements people have recommended for me.

big pappa.. Thx for your reply.... I totally agree with you that breathing is related to our mind and I do agree on the meditation. However, effective meditation seems to take time and lot of practice to be able to achieve. Anyway, it definitely is worth trying. I have a plan to do more meditation from now on. When you talk about suppliment, do you know what are good for ENS??? PS. I am impressed by the way you look at ENS. it is very positive. I wish all of us could think like you do. Thx for sharing.

If you require meditation to improve your breathing then you have a breathing problem to begin with. It's best to focus time and energy to fix this breathing problem than to rely on daily meditation. Meditation can be a helpful tool to help control your breathing when it becomes too stressful, but one needs to remember that this is not a substitute to treating the actual physical problem. Neither are the supplements (which I have expressed my opinion in length about on a different thread). Healthy breathing is when you simply go about your day, happy and merry and do not have to notice your breathing, meditate constantly or be pre-occupied with it.

The bone does not grow back. Have you ever seen a leg or an arm grow back after amputation? Hear me out, whatanose and bigpapa: I have been dealing with ENS now for more than 11 years and have talked to many others. First of all the only thing ENS sufferers are to blame for (if you can call that blame...) was in trusting their surgeons blindly and not doing enough research prior to their surgery (I'm not talking about those poor patients who's doctors preformed un agreed upon and un-informed surgeries, and they are many). I have been torturing myself for letting down my guard and I will continue doing so probably for the rest of my life, but recognise that it's just more baggage that we all have to carry one way or another as we age. And also that crying over spilt milk is not an action plan. I do not believe in karma as I've seen too many bad things happen to too many people (the 6 million murdered in the holocaust for example) and they could not have all sinned so badly in their previous lives to deserve death, even if I did believe in re-incarnation (which I don't). Karma aside, I believe that it's good and healthy to be a good person (everyone with their own definition of good) and try and do good deeds, because I believe that a kind spirit has some impact on everyone around you and helps to create an over-all more friendly atmosphere in a kind of ripple wave effect way. However, having dealt with disability for so long I realize that ENS patients, even more than other disabled people, fall into wishful thinking traps all the time. Mainly because of three reasons: 1. the problem cannot be seen on the outside. So it's difficult to accept the physical reality as it really is (this is why I always encourage people to study and understand their CTs and endocopic pictures). 2. Most doctors and ENTs not only know nothing about ENS but also hardly understand the intimate connection between the nose and the lungs, subsequently telling their ENS patients that they are exaggerating and that they can over come this minor problem with mind over matter or by simply "chilling out". We as patients would always want to believe that first than come to terms that we have a permanent disability that can only be improved through medical intervention which is more than using sprays or pills. 3. Breathing is very influenced by mood, blood pressure, general health, and of course - your psychological state. All variables that we all have quite a large degree of control over. As a result we experience, like all people do significant fluctuations in how we breathe throughout our lives, which make it increasingly confusing in realizing what normal is and what isn't in our breathing. Add to that the wishful thinking of hoping that it will all go away one day and you will find that the grea-*test*-('") enemy of ENS awareness are ENS patients themselves, who are simply confused as to what is good and healthy breathing or won't come to terms with it. Of course it doesn't help that many of them do not have severe ENS to begin with, as total or subtotal IT resection (which are the worst form of ENS) are becoming increasingly rare, thanks to the fact that many of the radically resected patients (if not all) go on to develop ENS symptoms which cannot be ignored even by the most doubtful ENTs. Those who have had partial resections are of course always going to be more confused about their symptoms as they feel a larger magnitude of fluctuation in their symptoms. It's quite simple really - the more turbinate tissue you retain the more of the nasal cycle and airflow sensations you feel. This gives them many moments during the day in which they almost feel normal. This can naturally for example occur during meditation (because slowing down your heart beat and lowering your blood pressure expands your blood vessels) so they think - hey we found a way to cure ourselves... but they are wrong as increasing the blood flow is good but will not get resected bone to regenerate. Only in the very mild cases that are not really ENS patients but do have some ENS-type symptoms (through some slight mucosal trimming) will improving the blood flow to the mucosa have an accumulative effect that might cause some of the soft tissue to regenerate sufficiently to alleviate all symptoms, but then - their symptoms were very minor in comparison with radically resected patient to begin with. So, my plea to people here is while remaining optimistic is always good, if you have proper ENS and not only ENS-type symptoms - don't fall into the fallacy of karma, and all kinds of psychological-spiritual fallacies which people who suffer chronically often fall into, as a way of comforting themselves. It will not solve the physical problem or improve your suffering in the long run. I know, because like many others I've been there and tried everything, only to realize that I waisted too many years believing that if I do good, meditate, pray, try to ignore it, hipnotise myself etc' it will go away. Eventually, three years and a half years ago, I said enough is enough and began doing something proactive to try and solve it for good (by starting the ENS Association with David). I finally realized that the debates over what has more impact on what - the mind on the body or the body on the mind - are perhaps an interesting pass time - but that if we ever want to cure our ENS we have to accept the facts that we know for sure and not the ones that we speculate about in endless theological and spiritual debates. Because - While we don't know enough about how much impact the mind has on the body's ability to heal itself we do know that humans are not lizards and do not have the capability of spontaneously regenerating resected bones and limbs. The turbinate bones supply the structure that holds their submucosa and mucosa. Less of one means less of the other. The turbinates and predominantly the ITs supply most of the nasal resistance to the lungs. The nose is designed to slow down the during inspiration, in comparison to the mouth, to allow longer expiration phases and this allows better gas exchange, as the alveoli remain expanded longer. This is why nasal breathing results in better arterial oxygenation followed by a physical sensation of relaxation and improved mental function. We need to replace this resistance somehow in the closest as possible way to the natural form. So, the motto is to stay optimistic but be pragmatic and practical at the same time. It's not always easy to keep this balance as one tends to day dream and escape too much into the spiritual, when suffering physically or emotionally. So we need to constantly remind ourselves of this. Of course - if you have given up treating ENS then all that is left is to believe blindly. I suppose that gives some comfort and is better than nothing. I myself will never give up trying to fix it, becasue I will not accept the qulaity of life and well being it reduced me too.

Re: This is one of many things we all should do having ENS
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3, An excellent post. You've really hit the nail on the head with this one. Well done!

3 & TE Thx for your comments, I definitely understand your thoughts. It surely is not our responsibility to realized about the effect of reducing or even removing turbinates, doctors are. But have you ever wonder why did not we ran into the doctors with proper knowledge like doctor Houser in the first place? was not it faith? Have you ever wonder why some were even born blind or disable?? They have done nothing worng in their life. Well, whatever one believes, I do not really think it matters, just like 3 said.... do good deeds just can not hurt I suppose. Btw TE, from my scan, I still have bone & tissue left. My tissue was reduced in size. There will be no chance of the thing growing back at some level at all?? I thought I have some hope man =(

whatanose, have you ever wonder why did not we ran into the doctors with proper knowledge like doctor Houser in the first place? was not it faith? Have you ever wonder why some were even born blind or disable?? They have done nothing wrong in their life. These are very dangerous thoughts. Very few if any, of even the most stoic and resilient Buddhist monks who meditate all their lives in isolated monasteries attempting to learn how not to care about the flesh and the material world or their ego - manage to actually get there. Those who claim that have actually reached Nirvana are very few (and their self -*test*-('")imonies are very questionable) and to be honest unless they become media celebrated Gurus with thousands of disciples that pad them with money (a very materialistic thing...) they don't seem too happy to me. I don't know if there is a God or not, if there is something like an eternal soul, or if every person has his destiny written somewhere. All I know is that if I had a clue or an answer about all of those - then I would probably not have been human-being to begin with. Now, as I clearly am only flesh and blood and human, then my opinion is that I cannot assume anything in these matters. Meaning - I recognize that there are certain questions and certain issues that the human intellect cannot and won't ever be able to answer or even begin to understand, so I forbid myself from ever going there. I think that's the only sane thing to do. Many have tried to do what you do - none have come back safe in one piece. There are some questions that are not meant to be answered and are best accepted as such. Clearly you are searching hard for your own answers. I would urge you to read the book of Ecclesiastics of the Old Testament and pay special attention to the last few versus there. It's a very powerful philosophical Essay about a poet-king that had it all and then lost it all and then had it all again only to lose it all again, that has experienced all the experiences of the flesh and all the delights of the soul and the illusions of the brain. And his final conclusion about what's it all about? can we understand or make sense of any of it? and should we even try? Anyway, back to more earthy and practical matters - like your nose: I really can't comment without having seen your CTs. Have you shown them to Dr Houser? Basically - resected bone does not grow. Resected tissue does not really grow back, but can hypertrophy - mean - thicken. This is a process in which it becomes permanently inflamed and eventually remains permanently swollen even after the inflammation is gone. Generally speaking - in a normal nose - this is a bad pathological process - which is the cause of turbinate surgeries to begin with, in an attempt to clear the obstruction it causes. But in moderate ENS cases - usually following partial resections, like you describe, when a significant portion of turbinate tissue remains - this process can cause some improvement in nasal resistance and ENS sensations. Although it may again cause some feeling of over obstruction at the same time. Some people on this board have tried to induce this to happen in their noses for years. I have warned them against that. I still think that it's wrong to do because it's not a physiological solution and can cause permanent over obstruction and damage to the nasal mucosa. I think that implants are a much more physiological option.

TE, I, like you, and everyone else just do not know where we will finally end up after death. I pray everyday though =). The reason I mentioned about reincanation, faith, and karma is just because when you think of things around us.... everything naturally go in cycle. moon around earth, earth around sun, spring, summer, fall, winter, day, night, day..... human life?? get born, get old, get sick, die.... and then??? Well, again man... that is just something that I dream up and just wanna share. No intention to not respect anyone believe. Back to the ENS... I have my CT scan done 3 months after my operation. Again what I did was Radio Frequency and nothing physically has been cut out but again from the symptom I am now having I believe I do have ENS. I will try to scan my CT. Do you know where can I post it on the net?

Check around the different posts both on the general section and also on the implant surgery section. Many forum users have posted their CTs in different websites that allow you to upload your pictures. RF will not usually cause ENS, but anything is possible if done too aggressively, plus the out-fracture was probably un-necessary and a bit of an over-kill by your doctor. He did that because he probably expected your IT tissue to hypertrophy somewhat in the following years, and he might be right it might occur. It's too early to tell in your case. The submucosa areas which were destroyed by the RF will not regenerate, just like veins that are burnt or cut out of a varicose vein leg, will not grow back, despite the popular belief. Some micro vessel angiogenesis might occur which will improve the function of the remaining submucosa. If I were you I would wait for another year - do my best to live healthy and keep in shape. If say after a year from now nothing improves - I would check my options with Dr Houser. Basically you have to surgical options: 1. expand the remaining submucosa of the ITs with Alloderm strips. Works very well. 2. Try and reset the fractured bones back to re-create the needed resistance. I'm not sure this is possible but I think it is. Basically, compared to others here you should consider yourself VERY lucky, because unless that doctor burnt out most of you submucosa (which I'm sure he didn't) then your situation will probably improve dramatically in the years to come, and if not - surgery will be very helpful as you have a lot remaining that can be worked with. So, I guess you have good Karma after all... :wink: (For any further discussions that are not to do with emotional-spiritual issues, please post on the general forum section. Thanks for the interesting theological-philosophical-psychological discussion). 8)

Good Reading.
TE very good reading thanks your right the Jews didn't deserve what they went through I pray for them daily. I sure let my guard down when I had this sinus surgery I knew better because I have had many Big surgery's before this one reconstructed Jaw surgery that was because a orthodontist pulled the wrong teeth that was a tuff surgery I donated my records to UCLA so no one else would be messed with like this ,But I thought to my self if I could handle 2 lower spinal back surgery and my jaw that this sinus surgery would be nothing Oh how I has wrong I will never be the same I know it sound crazy but forgiving the Doctor's is helping me move on .I thank God I found this website my faith and ENSA saved my life Thanks TE,CM,SH you 3 deserve a grammy award. What dose help ME is daily Praying reading my BIBLE and my Praise and worship music it has helped the deep depression,Music is like a Doctor for my soul.

Thank you Sharon. Don't forget David. We founded the ENS association together and brain-stormed many of the things that later became a reality and also those that failed. 8) We learnt a lot on ENS and how to move forward with it in the past three years. I'm sure that the best is yet to come. ENS is a chronic problem but there will be much improvement in the years to come in how this problem is viewed by the ENT community and in ways to treat and significantly improve many of the symptoms. PS: Music is a great tool to take the mind of things and give yourself a break. My study is split into two - in one corner I have piles of research papers and books about the nose and human physiology and in the other corner stands proudly - my classic Spanish guitar with my music books. I find myself wondering from one corner to the other in the time I spend in my study. Sometimes the best ideas come when you give your mind a break and just surrender to pleasure that frees your imagination and lets in run free. Albert Einstein said that imagination is more important than knowledge. I'm not sure I would use those exact words, but I think that what he meant was that we all posses innately an intuitive understanding of the physical rules that govern our lives. When we think hard about a certain problem in a calculated and tidy fashion we often hit dead ends as we channel our thought through conventional mind-sets and ideologies we grew up on, through the institutionalized knowledge we all acquired in our formal education. Setting your mind free and allowing it to wonder through the many associations that make up our scattered thoughts can often bring the break through that scholars are waiting for but can't seem to get to because of the conventions they are stuck in.

TE, Thx for the comments... just like you suggest... take a good care, wait and see.... Lately, I have lots of white clear mucus that I have to blow out all day...my nose is bleeding from that... The ENT said that is part of the allergy I have....May be that is full of shit... Do you know if CPAP help ENS when sleep???